2018-01-01 13:05:01
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1929. Argentina never properly recovered from the Great Depression in Latin America.
By all accounts, Argentina, with its rich primary resources, was a destination of choice for many European immigrants in the 19th century. It was definitely ahead of the backwaters of Australia. By 1929, Argentina was a wealthy country by world standards.
Following the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the entire world fell into economic depression. Argentina fell prey to the lure of military coup in 1930 and the subsequent Infamous Decade (1930-1943). Core to the political turmoil was a deep loss of trust of civil society, and thus military men see it as their duty in imposing order and create prosperity from their iron will and iron fists.


Out of the mess, Peronism arose as somewhat of an allergic reaction toforeign influences, real and imagined. Peronism's determinism in remaining a part of the Non-Aligned Movement (third world) meant that literally, the country remained in the third world. Argentina became a battle-ground of force and ideas between the US and USSR, without having enjoyed the benefits of being aligned to either side.
Post the fall of the USSR, it hoped to quickly catch up economically, and took out large amount of loans during a time of rapid growth. It precipitated to the 1998–2002 Argentine great depression, for which Argentina is still feeling its consequences decades later.

在苏联垮台后,又希望在经济高速增长的时候迅速赶上,进行了大量贷款。又引发了1998 - 2002年的阿根廷大萧条,恐怕阿根廷几十年后仍然遭受其后果。


Because when our GDP was on par with the US and in France people used the phrase “as rich as Argentine”, our political and rich elites decided to not hop on the industrialist train.
Many people will say Perón and populism. Other will say liberalism and extreme right-wings from the US. Both are right and wrong, both did bad to the country in several aspects. Yet, what I said is the reason.


While the United States acquired debt and fomented private enterprises to develop it vast lands, to exploit their resources, to compete, etc, etc, etc, in Argentina, high society decided to just sit and live from agricultural rent. So instead of the state contracting companies to make railroads connecting and populating the country, or issuing bonds to private companies in the country to exploit iron, transform it on steel, manufacture locomotives and lay railways, the government just handed the task over to British and French companies. They could get 15 km of lands to both sides of the railroad in exchange for building it so the ruling class washed its hands from the task.
Why would they naturally not import everything from Europe? Why would they invest in producing steel in Argentina? They laid the tracks in a concentrated network towards Buenos Aires to move the agricultural production to the port. So there was not even population vast stretches of land across the country trading goods, but concentrated populations on farmlands with a network of trains going to Buenos Aires to export.


That was what went wrong with Argentina. The country sat on easy money and the rich didn’t expand, they didn’t take the risk on new investments and business, the state didn’t foment new economic activities. We did the opposite the US did. So we reached the 20’s being a gigantic country, full of unexploited resources, with a very low population, living from agriculture and importing all manufactured goods, while the US got Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie, Edison, etc, etc, etc, taking the US resources and transforming them in money and goods to be exported. We got the Alzaga, the Anchorenas and the Rural Society just growing wheat, corn and cows and governing the country.



Argentina was a thriving country, and many other thriving countries have gone through the same upheavals that have been noted above and remained thriving.
However, I believe Argentina's deep ties to its military history eventually resulted in where it is now, getting by from paycheck to paycheck.Like many other countries, Argentina's existence depended on it's military.Unlike other countries that went through the same thing, they never quite managed to keep the military under civilian control.Instead, the political system largely existed to keep the military in power.


That would be fine in a country with many external enemies.Argentina didn't really have any.Still, military spending kept escalating and eventually overwhelmed the ability of the economy to pay for it.It largely came to a head after the Falklands War of 1983.That was supposed to be a quick strike to settle a longstanding dispute.Argentina believed, not unwisely, that Britain would not intervene and, if it did, they would be at such a disadvantage that they would win a war with Britain anyway.
That is, of course, not what happened.Despite the Argentinian army and navy having their bases within a few hundred miles of the battle zone and the British having to haul everything thousands of miles, and depsite the Argentinian air force having the advantage of land bases while the British were flying off carriers, the British handed Argentina their lungs on a plate.


This absolute disaster had long lasting effects on Argentina.The military started to lose it's hold on power, and the money they spent on the war had so drained the nation's treasury that recovery was impossible.Eventually, those rich farmers stopped taking australs for their food and Argentinians in the cities had to sell everything portable they had just to eat.Most of the material wealth of Argentina can still be found in the pawn shops of Buenos Aires.



This is a very simplistic view, and bear in mind: simply my own personal opinion.
I believe that the problem with Argentina lies not only in its ruling class, but on the working class. I feel that Argentineans are always on the lookout for an easy fix to all their woes. So when a politician comes to court them, promising the moon and the stars, they vote him or her into power, become their biggest and blindest fans because of their fervor to believe in everything they were told... and then their candidate leaves power several millions richer while little has improved, they are left astonished.


Argentines also need somebody to vilify, a scape-goat to place all the blame on. Be it the US, the UK, capitalism, the IMF -- or president Macri. If that doesn't work, they create a big distraction to get people riled up (i.e. The Falklands War). But above all, mass hate must be directed towards someone or something.
Also, cannot forget that they --and their heros/favorite politicians and football players-- are always right, never wrong. The fault is always somebody else's.
The day they realize that they are their own worst enemy, is the day that might set them on the right path back to prosperity.

另外,不能忘记,他们 - 他们的英雄/最喜欢的政治家和足球运动员 - 总是对的,从不错。过错总是别人的错。

Inflation is a very, very destructive thing. When you have terrible inflation, you aren't able to save money because that money is worth less in the future - so you need to spend it now while it holds value. This makes it very difficult to have class mobility.
Voting is mandatory, also. The majority of voters are poor, and the poor don't want the same things as the middle class, they want what's good for the poor. So, they vote in politicians who give the poor what they want.
Rinse and repeat, throw in some military coups every twenty years or so, and you have what you see today. Actually, it's suprising they are as advanced as they are today, considering.

通货膨胀是一个非常非常具有破坏性的事情。 当你的通货膨胀很糟糕时,你将无法存钱,因为这笔钱在未来价值更低 - 所以你现在需要花钱,而它却拥有价值。 这让阶级流动变得非常困难。
投票也是强制性的。 大多数选民都是穷人,穷人不希望和中产阶级一样,穷人希望有好处。 所以,谁许诺穷人好处,穷人就给哪个政治家票。
不断的如此循环,每二十年左右出一起军事政变,这就是你今天看到的。 事实上,惊讶他们今天如此“先进”,令人深思。

The curse of Argentina, its cancer, is a phenomenon known as Peronism.
Juan Peron was a general who became president, carrying out a highly populist regime, plagued with corruption and clientelism just when Argentina had amassed an incredible fortune selling foodstuffs to the world during World War II.
Peron, and his wife Evita Perón, became the "parents of the poor", giving away money, gifts, houses to the populace and draining the estate's arcs in a few years. This is when the country started its long decline.
Peron became a dictator, and his followers kept on stealing and destroying our economy. The reaction to this came in the form of military Coups d'état, which were no solution to this, and the emergence of extreme left guerrilla groups that caused bloodshed in the 70's.

胡安·佩隆(Juan Peron)是一位总统,当阿根廷在二战期间积累了一笔不可思议的财富,在向世界出售商品时,诞生了一个高度腐败的民粹主义政权。

During the last decades, there was a profound demographic transformation, with the Middle Class (once the largest in Latin America) shrinking while the lower classes exploded out of control.
The Kirchner era (from 2001 to this day) is the cherry in the cake. By far, the most corrupt and prepotent government in all our history. The Kirchners (Nestor and his wife Cristina Fernández de Kirchner) punished the agricultural industry (which fought the confiscatory taxes that left them with no profit) by banning the export of meat and dairy products.
You read well, the government banned the exports of our flagship industries, thus losing foreign markets that were dominated by our country for decades.



Three simple things:

1. Weakness for populism and caudillismo.
Argentinians love big personalities and want to be saved by them, which makes them easy prey for big mouths.
2. Big egos = bad team players.
Argentinians are usually great individuals but many will not think twice in letting down a partner to make themselves out stand. Every time there is an economic crisis the number of Argentinean expats grows exponentially.
3. Sense of self entitlement.
Argentinians usually think they deserve the best because they struggle to be the best and so they tend to sit and wait for the glory to fall from the sky once they win a couple of battles.


阿根廷人通常是有伟大的个人,但许多人不会考虑何伙伴一起站出来。 每次出现经济危机,阿根廷的外国人数量都会呈指数级增长。

本帖最后由 dany225 于 2017-12-31 09:14 编辑


lostwing 发表于 2017-12-31 09:40
还有一方面原因,就是被美国当作后院,整个拉美可以说是无时无刻都在给美国输送营养,成为美国的原料产地和 ...

dany225 发表于 2017-12-31 09:10
因为阿根廷什么都好,唯独缺一种叫做煤的矿产资源,没有煤就等于没有支持工业化的电力。在从拉普拉塔 ...


ccr69 发表于 2017-12-31 10:41
貌似水力资源丰富呀,我们刚去那里建水电站。就是那民主选票耽误事,真有家国情怀的独裁掌权未必不能发展 ...


The day they realize that they are their own worst enemy, is the day that might set them on the right path back to prosperity.

投票也是强制性的。 大多数选民都是穷人,穷人不希望和中产阶级一样,穷人希望有好处。 所以,谁许诺穷人好处,穷人就给哪个政治家票。

thisnameok2 发表于 2017-12-31 10:59






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